"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Monday, 21 March 2011

House Debate On Libya

Cameron took a great deal of interventions during his statement on the UN Resolution on Libya to the House this afternoon.  He seemed to take one at least every one/two minutes.  He was forty minutes into his speech before he refused further interventions.

The benches were packed and the questions came from all sides asking about regime change, civilian casualties, an exit strategy/time limit, ground force involvement etc.  If Libya, why not Yemen and Zimbabawe?  There was also a general concern about the Arab League not pulling its weight, the Attorney-General's legal advice, and the safety of journalists.

Some notes:

Emphasis on humanitarian aspects.
No use of depleted uranium or cluster munitions.
One RAFmission  aborted Sunday night because of proximity of civilians.
A successful outcome is "the cease of attack on civilians".
Not another Iraq.
Had we waited for the Arab League to take the lead "Benghazi would have fallen, Tobruk would have fallen".
Bill Cash asked about the summary of the legal advice from the Attorney-General which isn't available to MPs yet.
There'll be a review of arms exports and training licenses generally in the light of what's happening in Libya.  "There will be lessons to learn from this conflict."
If one of our pilots is downed, are our hands tied by the UN Resolution vis-a-vis a rescue op? No, said Cameron.
Gaddafi "a pariah in a state festering on the border of Europe".  It's in our national interest to intervene.
Dangers, difficulties, unforeseen consequences but a risk worth taking for the sake of civilian safety.
Mission leadership will transfer to NATO command & control after America stands down.
No resources diverted from Afghanistan campaign.
There may be answers to Yvonne Fletcher's killing & support for NI terrorism.
The future of Libya is for the people of Libya to decide; they must choose their government and destiny.
No future with Gaddafi.

The two most-used words: humanitarian and destiny.

Miliband followed and spoke of a just cause, feasible mission and UN backing.  Franco was also mentioned.  The Opposition supports the government.  Robert Halfon, Con, Harlow took some stick from the Opposition benches for querying Labour's links with Libya.  Miliband: This is not a day for Party politics.

After Miliband, the debate will continue until 10pm at the latest.

That's as much as I could do - needed a cup of tea.  The rest will be in Hansard three or so hours after the end of the debate and I'll see if I can find a video somewhere for those who are interested in the detail, or it will be on iPlayer or Live Parliament later.


  1. Yes, quite, GV!

    And not a word about oil - just a fleeting reference to "resources" by Miliband. (A refutation, no less).

    Interesting that Miliband (M) alluded to prior agreement with Cameron as to the UK's stance on Libya. Interesting, too, that M referred repeatedly to a "world order" that "we'd all like to see".

    Reminiscent of Obama?

    M blew his dog whistle so that the globalists might hear. I remain highly suspicious of the motives of the 'leaders' of both 'mainstream' parties.

    Boris had a piece in the DT today, to which a plethora of people commented that the foray was about oil. Needless to say, the entire block of comments has been hidden.

    Obviously, they hit a nerve ...

  2. Hi Fausty, it was something mentioned by b/benches and, for now, they may be sceptical but are accepting the govt's arguments that this is a 'humanitarian' intervention. Miliband even split hairs about calling it a civil war - he said it was 'a popular uprising'. You can't win when governments play with words. They mean whatever they want them to mean.

    I find Miliband always makes much of his heritage yet his father, Ralph/Adolphe, was Belgian, fleeing to England in 1940. He always skates over Granddad M leaving Poland to fight for the Communists in Russia before leaving for Belgium. I think we all know something stinks.

  3. PS - Yes, dog whistles a-plenty from both C and M. In the debate Rory Stewart said, paraphrased, 'not one country and one month but many countries and thirty years'. Bush/Blair, Obama/Cameron/Miliband - all on the same side.


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